Contributing host Ray MacKay recently sat down with Brock Smith about his Payne campaign, now on Kickstarter. You can watch the whole show with Brock on YouTube.
Ray: We met at WonderCon a couple of years ago, and you haven’t been able to get rid of me since.
Brock Smith: Hey, you have been fantastic, man. You always bring such good energy. You’re a good person to have in people’s lives, Ray. I really do mean that.
Ray: You’re too kind. Let’s jump in. As a first‑time guest, we always ask: what’s your origin story? What got you into comics?
Brock Smith: I grew up reading things here and there — flipping through Archie at the gas station or Shonen Jump at the grocery store. What really got me into comics was a friend named Jesse. In middle school, he and his dad used to give me bags stuffed with as many comics as they could fit. His dad has a walk‑in closet of long boxes. It’s incredible. They’d give me three of those a year for my birthday.
My mom would drag me to Barnes & Noble, trying to get us to read. I eventually found a novelization of Batman: Knightfall. I read that, and on the back cover, it said, “Enjoyed the novel? Check out the graphic novels it was based on.” It had the five volume covers. My mom said, “I don’t care what it is — you’re going to read. I’ll buy it for you.” Between Jesse and my mom buying me that graphic novel set, that’s where it all started.
Ray: Moving into your creative life — what pushed you to start ZRock Comics and Bad Bunker Books?
Brock Smith: I was pitching to some publishers, and a buddy said, “Hey, my friend has this indie company looking for writers.” I came aboard, and he connected me with an artist, Zen Snowden. We hit it off. Eventually, I decided I wanted to do things my own way. I told the CEO I was stepping away. I told Zen, “You can stay or come with me — no pressure.” Zen said they wanted to come with me. So we started ZRock Comics — Z for Zen.
A couple of years passed, and we realized we wanted to tell a lot of different kinds of stories. Our genres were getting too broad. So we created Bad Bunker. ZRock would be superpowers, mythological, mystical. Bad Bunker would be noir, mystery, apocalyptic. It helped us keep track of everything.
Ray: You pull from real people and real places. How do you decide what becomes part of the story?
Brock Smith: I wear my heart on my sleeve, and that translates into my writing. With Ferryman, you’ll see my love for storytelling and Greek mythology. But PAYNE is more personal. Every writer puts a little of themselves into everything. I wanted my San Diego to feel like San Diego. So I went to shops I frequent — cigar shops, breweries, comic shops — and asked if I could feature them. I want people to open the book and say, “Oh, that’s the Cigar Grotto in Oceanside.” As for characters, it depends on what flows and how I’m feeling. It’s hard to explain.
Ray: You’ve mentioned being influenced by ’80s and ’90s comics. Any favorites?
Brock Smith: The Dark Knight Returns, hands down. The art, the way Batman was written — he kills people. The old badass is coming out of retirement to kick more ass. Marvel did their version recently with Avengers: Twilight. Everyone calls it Marvel’s Dark Knight Returns because that’s what it is. Another series that does it well is The Sixth Gun. But Dark Knight Returns was the first time I learned comics could be full of grit and dark emotion. It was the first book where Batman felt like Batman.
Ray: Let’s talk about PAYNE, now on Kickstarter. What’s the book about?
Brock Smith: PAYNE is a dark and gritty superhero story. You never see San Diego in superhero comics as a main setting, so that was part of it. I wanted to immerse people in real locations. I also liked the idea of the brawny meathead paired with the smart guy — brains versus brawn — but as a team from the start.
I wrote it during a dark time. It was cathartic. Payne is how I see myself as a superhero — the way I’d want to be. Without spoiling too much, there’s loss. People die. Characters fight with depression and eventually find redemption. Sham is telepathic and telekinetic — like Jean Grey. Payne is a brawling badass with regeneration and super strength — like Wolverine without claws.
Their nemesis, Maus, is from pre‑Civil War times. He discovers dark secrets about his family, his powers activate, and he vows to eradicate his bloodline. He learns he can possess bodies — but only within his bloodline. So he always has to leave someone alive to jump into. That brings him to modern San Diego, where Payne and Sham have been thwarting him.
Ray: What made now the right time to launch PAYNE?
Brock Smith: We’d been sitting on the edge of releasing it. While working on Ferryman #2, we realized we had most of an issue of PAYNE ready. We extended it to bring the page count up. It was a quick turnaround to get people a new book while they wait. But also, I was at a point in my mental‑health journey where I wanted to share this story. PAYNE is where that started for me. It’s me sharing my journey.
Ray: The book leans into darker emotional territory. What themes were most important?
Brock Smith: Loss and depression. I wanted people to feel seen — especially those who feel alone in traumatic events. Issues #1 and #2 are heavy. But the story is about eventually finding light and redemption.
Ray: How did you and Zen coordinate the visual tone?
Brock Smith: I told Zen I wrote it in an emotionally vulnerable state and wanted that felt in the art. I did rough storyboards. Zen knows me and why I wrote it, and it felt like they took the images out of my head. You can look at the art without reading the dialogue and feel what the characters feel.
Ray: What was the biggest challenge in getting PAYNE ready for Kickstarter?
Brock Smith: Promotion. We were excited and winging it a bit. We’ve learned a lot from past campaigns, but not having certain contacts made it trickier. Still, we’re making it work.
Ray: How does PAYNE fit into the larger ZRock/Bad Bunker universe?
Brock Smith: PAYNE will be the outlier for a bit. I know how my mythology stories tie together. I’d love for PAYNE to connect, but I haven’t figured out how yet. Mental health is a big part of why I write, so if ZRock ends up with several stories with that undertone, that’s fine. Right now, PAYNE is a passion project I want to do my way.
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